VP Debate Winner: Paul Ryan Wins, Joe Biden is Unprofessional and Did Vote for Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan
Note: Biden stated clearly during the debate that he had voted AGAINST the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
He voted for the Patriot Act and No Child Left Behind, too.
Those hoping that Vice President Joe Biden will slip up during his debate with Paul Ryan and those who hope Ryan will stutter, stammer or freak out are set for Thursday's matchup. A lot of hopes are resting on Biden's shoulders after President Obama's lackluster performance in the first presidential debate last week. Policy wonk Ryan will be debating at the national level for the first time.
In 2008, Sarah Palin's gaffes against Biden helped to fuel fires of criticism against her and the Republican ticket. In 1988, venerable Democrat Senator Lloyd Bentsen uttered one of the all-time debate zingers against a young Dan Quayle who had just finished explaining how he had at least as much experience as John F. Kennedy. Bentsen adroitly said he knew Jack Kennedy, and added, "Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy."
Let’s see how Thursday’s debate between Joe Biden and Paul Ryan plays out. Follow me live for full play-by-play and analysis.
The debate is scheduled to take place in the small town of Danville, Kentucky on October 11, Thursday evening.
PolicyMic will be covering the vice presidential debate live. For live updates bookmark and refresh this page.
LIVE Update: Monday's news featured the Obama campaign debate strategy in the New York Times, with Biden reportedly taking three days for debate prep with campaign advisor David Axelrod over the weekend. Ryan has been preparing for the debate off and on throughout the campaign with Republican attorney Ted Olson standing in for Biden. Olson is a former Solicitor General who is noted for his advocacy of same-sex marriage before the Supreme Court.
Paul Ryan returned to his hot dog roots (he was an Oscar Meyer Weinermobile driver in college) for a recent campaign stop in Ohio.
Don't hate Paul Ryan because he's hot.
According to AP, Ryan told a Milwaukee radio station, "Joe Biden's been doing this for 40 years. I mean, the man ran for president twice, he's the sitting vice president. And this is my first time on this kind of stage. So sure, there's a lot of pressure."
70 million people watched the 2008 Vice Presidential debates between Joe Biden and Sarah Palin, and a reported 70 million watched last week's debate between Barack Obama and Mitt Romney. Ryan may or may not be the draw Palin certainly was in 2008.
Interesting pre-debate polling math. The Investor's Business Daily/TIPP daily presidential poll for October 10 says that 83% of those who voted for Obama in 2008 would vote for him again. That's 57,649,224 -- less than McCain's 2008 total of nearly 59.93 million. The poll shows that Obama is polling 60-34 among Hispanics, but it must be polling very few Hispanics to achieve that result, as "Black and Hispanic" is 84-13, while Black alone is 91-6. Duh. Guess what? Jews in this poll are 47 Obama, 25 Romney -- and 28% undecided! No Democrat has ever gotten less than 70% of the Jewish vote. I guess going on the View and not meeting with Netanyahu had some impact. I don't know which is more shocking, the 28% "undecided" or 47% support for Obama, mirroring most of the rest of the country - for the first time ever. The poll sampled 39% Democrats, 31% Republicans, and 30% Independents.
World's stupidest article: Mother Jones explains why it's good for the Obama campaign to call Romney Ryan "liars" - because of a word problem analogy about driving from Boston to Los Angeles in 15 hours! That's right."Suppose Governor Romney said that he wants to drive a car from Boston to Los Angeles in 15 hours. And suppose some analysts employed tools of arithmetic to conclude that "If Governor Romney wants to drive from Boston to LA in 15 hours, it is mathematically impossible to avoid speeding." Who reads this stuff and believes it who can read?
TIME may think they're going to incite some type of mockery of Paul Ryan by reprinting workout photos of Paul Ryan from 2011. They're really a lot more inspiration for all new "Hey Girl" memes. Hey Paul! OMG HOT HOT HOT. (Photo Gregg Segal for TIME).
It pays to be Paul's FB friend - Paul and his 7 year old son Sam this morning - "Great pep talk from one of my most trusted advisors!"
Things are heating up and the debate is about to start in 50 minutes! The two candidates have been on site for more than three hours.
5:58 PM PDT - Debate about to start!
6:02 PM PDT - Martha Raddatz introduces debate - 9 segments, each candidate has 2 minutes to answer. VP Biden won the coin toss and will start . . .
Very different, because they are sitting at a desk - no podiums. Martha Raddatz opens with question about Libyan attack on 9-11. "Wasn't this an intelligence failure?" she asks Biden.
"What it was, was a tragedy," Biden said. He said we will find and bring to justice those responsible for the terrorist attack in Benghazi. He then talked about looking for a President and started criticizing Romney.
6:08 PM PDT - Paul Ryan's response. He criticized the President for saying it was not a terrorist attack for a week. He said it is becoming more troubling by the day - first, Obama Administration blamed the YouTube video, now blaming the Romney-Ryan ticket. We owe veterans a great debt of gratitude, including Beau Biden. Benghazi would be a tragedy in and of itself, but unfortunately it's indicative of a broader problem in Obama Administration foreign policy.
6:15 PM PDT - Ryan answering about Romney's early statement on Libya attack - Biden rolling eyes, grinning, wants to interrupt. "That's a bunch of malarky."
Biden blames Ryan for "cutting embassy security by $300 million." He refers to Romney statement panned by media around the world. Biden gets "uh" disease (was not overly stammering before).
Ryan keeping a cordial face.
Martha Raddatz follow-up. Biden says the "intelligence community" told Administration that there were protestors, which is why they gave the message. He says "We weren't told they wanted more security."
6:19 PM PDT - Ryan says U.S. should not be apologizing for soldiers urinating on Korans. He returns to Libyan disaster. He says it was 9-11 and we knew the Al Qaedas were on the rise, but we did not insist on more security.
Martha Raddatz wants to move to Iran. Should we attack Iran's nuclear facilities?
6:22 PM PDT - Ryan says "We cannot allow Iran to gain nuclear weapons capability." He says they are racing toward nuclear capability and now have enough material to make 5 bombs. Ryan says he has been fighting for sanctions since 2009, which the Administration fought - were put in place "in spite of the Administration." Iran is brazen and stepping up terrorist attacks - mentions attempt on Saudi Ambassador in DC last year. He says Iran's mullah's are moving toward a nuclear weapon because Administration is not credible.
6:23 PM PDT - Biden laughing at Ryan. He says we shouldn't have let Republican Congress negotiate sanctions (since when does Congress negotiate this type of thing?). Biden says Iranians are "a good way away from a nuclear weapon." Biden explains process of putting fissile material into weapons.
* * * Paul Ryan's "listening face" is the "Hey Girl" face! . . . who cares what he's saying? * * *
6:25 PM PDT - Biden desperately wants to interrupt. Biden says "Bibi has been my friend for 39 years. The President has met with him a dozen times."
** the situation with Netanyahu is "stuff" according to Biden - According to the Irish - "malarkey."
6:30 PM PDT - Biden interrupts Ryan. He says Iranians can't make a weapon, and we basically shouldn't worry about it.
6:32 PM PDT - Ryan says we have to take all the options off the table and get rid of equivocation. He says Russia watering down sanctions, it lets Iranians know they can continue with nuclear weapons.
6:34 PM PDT - Biden sounds like a knowitall about the sanctions; he says "this President doesn't bluff."
Martha Raddatz introduces the economy and unemployment. Can you get unemployment under 6% and how long will it take?
6:36 PM PDT - Biden says "We can get it under 6%." Long list of excuses - attacks Romney, brings in 47% attack. (Biden warms to his populist rhetoric! The $5 trillion in tax cutttsssss!!!!)
Ryan: Hey GIRLL!!!
6:38 PM PDT - Martha Raddatz does not allow Biden to interrupt Ryan regarding Scranton PA unemployment going up from 8.5% to 10% during Obama/Biden term. Gives info about Americans struggling for work, need for recovery, gives the 5 point plan. Ryan tells story of the Nixon family from Michigan whose children had been injured in an auto crash. The Nixon family went to the Romney's church, but they had not known the Romneys before the accident. Matt Nixon told Ryan about how Romney brought 3 of his sons and Ann over for Christmas, and promised all of the children would be able to go to college. Ryan laugh line to Biden "sometimes the words don't always come out the right way."
6:40 PM PDT - Biden goes back at the 47% thing - he says he doesn't doubt Romney's personal generosity. He refers to the accident that killed his wife years ago which was very sad. Romney said the auto industry should go bankrupt. Now they've created 5.2 million private sector jobs (this was 4.3 like 2 weeks ago??) Show me how you care about people. Show me a policy where you take responsibility. He blames Ryan. (Did Biden vote for or against the wars, tax cuts?)
6:45 PM PDT - Ryan gives the 3 sentence information re: Administration's failure. He says they can get unemployment to 6% in 3 years.
Biden - warms totally to his task! Biden seriously refers to Solyndra as a "model program." (The IRS said in trying to block Solyndra's bankruptcy filing today that it appeared exclusively motivated by a desire to avoid taxes).
6:50 PM PDT - On to Medicare and SS. Ryan says they are going bankrupt and it's an undisputed fact. He mentions how his mother benefited and he benefited after his father died (when he was 16). He says the way to solve the problem is to reform it for his generation. He refers to Obamacare cutting Medicare for current seniors. He says the Obamacare review board has 15 members that don't even have to medical training, and says it will cut current seniors Medicare benefits by 15% once it kicks in (2014??). He says more coverage for middle income, and total coverage for lower income and poor under his plan.
6:52 PM PDT - Biden talks back about Medicare and says his plan will extend the life of Medicare to 2024, and it's supported by AARP and AMA. He says if we had listened to Romney during the Bush years they would have privatized Social Security. (Romney - really?)
6:55 PM PDT - Ryan points up problems with cuts to Medicare and Obamacare. Biden interrupts Ryan again, Ryan speaks up.
Martha Raddatz fills in - asks for explanation of what will be done for seniors who can't afford to pay for voucher for Medicare. Ryan says they will reduce subsidies for wealthier seniors to pay for needs of less well-off seniors. Biden monster interrupting. Biden says they should allow Medicare to bargain for drugs.
6:58 PM PDT - Biden was there in 1983 when SS age was raised to make SS solvent until 2033. Is this a recommendation?
7:00 PM PDT - Ryan reiterates his plan to make Medicare and SS solvent. Biden says it will cost $2,600 more? Who will get more or less? Obama-Biden is for no change. Ryan's just wrong wrong wrong.
"Folks, use your common sense . . . who do you trust more?" (Biden Meme!)
Martha Raddatz moves to taxes - who will pay more and who will pay less?
7:02 PM PDT - Biden goes after the Bush tax cuts. Suddenly Republicans are "holding the middle class tax cut hostage" - which is this? The $5 trillion wealthy tax cut brought up again. The middle class got crushed! They need some help now.
7:05 PM PDT - Ryan says the Romney plan is meant to get the economy and jobs going again. Ryan points out that even if wealthy and businesses were taxed 100%, it would only run the government for 98 days.
Hey, Paul mentioned Canada tax cuts to 15% corporate rate Jan 2012!!! Yay Paul!
120,000 families making an average of $8 million a year is $800 BILLION in taxes? What??
Paul Ryan sticks to the bipartisan emphasis, reiterates working together.
Re: military - don't cut it, but don't increase it. (Ryan)
Biden - basically Romney/Ryan suck, I know what the military wants etc.
Martha Raddatz moves to Afghanistan.
7:14 PM PDT - Ryan recognizes sacrifices of troops, compliments Martha Raddatz for being their often. Ryan is in awe of troops and what they have accomplished. He says we don't want to lose the gains we have got. He says we would likely have taken the commanders' recommendations on troops, wants to see 2014 transition be successful, so Afghanistan doesn't turn into a ground for terrorism again.
7:17 PM PDT - Biden says he's been to Afghanistan 20 times and been throughout the country, mostly in a helicopter, or sometimes by vehicle. He says it is the responsibility of the Afghans to train their own security (refers to Green on Blue violence). He says if it continues, we will only train on bases, and we are leaving in 2014 period.
7:19 PM PDT - Ryan says we don't want to stay in Afghanistan. We don't want to stay beyond 2014, and we want to bring all the troops home as soon as possible. He says that we are watching the unraveling of Obama foreign policy abroad and jobs aren't growing at home.
Biden totally is interrupting. He says "49 of our allies signed on to this position."
Martha Raddatz asks - is the Taliban taking advantage of this timeline? Biden says that the Afghans won't step up until we leave. She asked Biden about bringing the surge troops home during the fighting season - was it a political move? Biden is combative with her and insists that it was announced the troops would be out before the summer, and the Joint Chiefs requested this in the Oval Office and "he sat there."
Ryan steps in and explains what the fighting season in Afghanistan is. He says that the troops are doing it with fewer people in fighting season, because 22,000 people were pulled out.
Biden yells that no one got pulled out that were not filled in by trained Afghan personnel (Didn't he just assert that the Afghans wouldn't step up until we left?)
Paul Ryan: power of silence (good job, Paul!) He got Biden to yell.
7:20 PM PDT - Biden expounds on Libya and Syria. He is losing his capacity to attack Ryan and discuss Syria intelligently (speculating about Romney/Ryan statements).
Ryan does a good job making it clear no one has said we should have US troops in Syria. He refers to Syria's bad situation and helping Syrian rebels more, Assad getting more time with the nonaction for one year.
Biden can not NOT interrupt. If split screen had been the entire time, he probably would have had some real doozy faces - what could be seen was plenty bad enough.
After the entire 90 minutes, Biden's behavior became highly overbearing and his expressions very unprofessional. I don't think this will come off very well with most people. He also seemed to take some situations lightly, such as Iran having nuclear weapons. Biden's complete lack of empathy for actual people despite his constant statements to the contrary was astonishing (this means showing respect for one's opponent and for how one's words and gestures are affecting others - like insisting there was nothing to worry about in Iran - and talking about his 20 helicopter flights over Afghanistan, and laughing about how Ryan didn't understand the troop surges, which sounded like he thought our troops being in danger was funny).
I know extreme Democrats love the behavior Biden showed, and I've seen and heard the lack of empathy and respect for decades. I am sure they're thrilled.
I don't think anybody else will be. Paul Ryan did well. Not perfectly, but holding a straight face as he did? A pretty major achievement.